I have a 1993 Hymer S700 with 330,000k on the clock. I have had the van 10 years, the last 5 full time (with the odd winter in storage).
Normally I would be shouting from the rooftops about these vans, and Hymers in general, and I have on other forums (just google funkyronster S700!!), but thought I would take a more measured stance for this thread, as it is about vehicles for full-timing in general.
I have been all over europe and north africa, and rubbed shoulders with the entire international community or full-timers and long distance travellers. From estate cars with a mattress in the back, through motorhomes and conversions, up through Cathargos to Unimogs and beyond. I've seen and met some stunning vehicles and people.
What I have discovered (cliche warning!), perhaps not surprisingly, is that it's horses for courses.
Putting aside the specialist vehicles, the question most people seem to ask is "is a standard motorhome up to the job of full-timing?". It's a difficult question to answer with a simple yes or no. the best I can do is - yes, mostly.
The problem with modern vans is that since they changed the driving test rules a few years ago, everybody's default licence is 3.5t, as opposed to the old 7.5t. This simple fact changed the face of the motorhome industry, as the majority of vans - the mass market - have to be less than this. So we ended up, with what, somewhat disrespectfully, is known as the "plastic fantastic", or more romantically, "le plastique fantastique".
Manufacturers simply had to lighten up, so that meant more plastic, and less wood and steel.
At the same time fuel prices have gone through the roof, so modern vans are light, fast, and do 40 mpg. Brilliant!
But I am not going to say that these vans are unsuitable for FT. Some of them are built better than others, and some owners are more careful than others. But in general, there are issues with reliability and maintenance if you use a van that was designed for 4 weeks use a year for all 52. However I can't ignore the fact that I have met many many fulltimers in standard vans - most happy, some not.
The other big issue is budget - bangs for buck. If you have a big budget, then most problems go away, but let's continue on the basis that we need to squeeze every last penny from our budget.
Like most van anoraks (ahem!) ..... I have been scanning forecourts and Ebay for years, so you get a feel for prices. I have learnt 3 things. 1. Nothing depreciates like a new camper van! 2. Some prices are downright silly. 3. There are incredible bargains to be had.
To that I will add a couple more observations. 1. Most people buy too small. 2. You need extra space. Always! That might seem a very simplistic statement, but I don't just mean space for booze and toys, but modification space. Like bigger batteries, extra gas, and so on.
So taking all that into consideration, I, and quite a few others, have ended up with 20 year old motorhomes like the Hymer S range from the 80's and 90's. They tick a lot of boxes.
Built in the pre 3.5t era, they were built solidly (that's an understatement - brick outhouse more like). And they are also German. If you are over 40, you may remember a time when German kit was literally in a class of it's own. It's still the best today, but back then it was the best by a country mile.
Next is the engine and chassis. A Mercedes diesel engine, with a design life of one million kilometres. No electronics, just solid reliability. My engine just doesn't fail, ever. Even with an air filter full of sand, it just went slower and slower until I noticed! Even with the dirtiest fuel in Morocco, it just went slower and slower until I noticed! It's like that Toyota Hilux Clarkson destroyed on "Top Gear".
It's at this point I have to stop trying to be balanced, and wax lyrical about "Old Style Hymers".
You get a lot of van for your money. Nowadays, if you shop around, you can get an early 90's S6xx or S7XX for around £10-12k. For that you get solid wood and veneer, a choice of well designed layouts, and pretty much everything you need. The only plastic is in the bathroom, and the only money I have spent in the bathroom in 10 years is a new Thetford cassette and a new glass door (I was drunk!).
This was the luxury van of it's era. They were about fifty grand back then - big money! They are solid without gimmicks. The same can be said for that era of Truma equipment. All my Truma stuff still works, only recently have I had to service my heaters. They were untouched for 20 years.
These Hymers also modify well for full-timing, and they carry the weight. Mine is plated at 4.6t and today it weighs 4.2t. That is with 250k of extra batteries, a 150k motorbike and full tanks.
They are not fast - they bear no comparison with modern Fiats, but they are a very comfortable drive, and extremely manoeuvrable, with a turning circle like a black taxi. Drivers over 50 love them, especially those that can double de-clutch!
The standard mods for full-timing are pretty straightforward. Power, lots of it. A single 110a leisure battery just doesn't cut it. You need 4 if you can. And solar panels, at least 200w, and a decent inverter, and a charger ..... the list goes on, but an old style Hymer can take the mods without major surgery.
These vehicles are also rugged. If you want adventure, you only need a Unimog for extremes. A double back wheel RWD Merc chassis will pretty much take you anywhere, and about twice as far as any FWD van. I have had loads of fun towing them off fields! Mine has been across the Sahara twice (not in the soft sand obviously), and on the worst roads in Europe - Ukraine. I have had broken springs and a few bushes, but only last year did I need new shocks. I am not saying they are indestructible (I have tried!), just that they will take a lot of punishment and are easy to repair. Same goes for the interior, it's solid, takes punishment Glastonbury style.....and still looks good after a clean.
One modification for old Hymers that not many people consider is to take out the front drop down bed. Most full timers are couples, and just don't need it. Once it's out you double your cabin space, and it feels like you have just bought a new van. You double your storage space, and you get to use the front over dash space for a drop down TV and sound system.
Choose your layout carefully. Mine is a fixed rear double bed with full width boot under, and fixed table on one side, with fold out extension, twin captains chairs, and settee opposite. It's the best layout I have seen for a couple. We also appreciate the roomy separate shower, which is also our pantry!
So what do I miss? After 10 years of moaning and jealously looking at OPV's, I can honestly say just two things. A bigger fridge and an oven. And perhaps more MPG! Ovens are non standard in european vans, but many Hymers do have them. The fridge we can live with - we eat fresh! My Seitz windows and blinds have seen better days, but they are fixable, and they all still work.
So that's my shout out for old style Hymers. I have not seen any motorhome of similar pedigree that I would rather own. The only thing that tempts me is "the other side" - a truck conversion, or a race truck. There are some incredible race truck bargains on Ebay, that you could modify for living. I would like a garage, but my 125cc Honda sits on the rack, and is no big deal.
Finally - I am not the only one! They are not the commonest van on the road, but when you meet the owners, the story is the same. There is a solid online community and owners, many full time like me who just love them. They keep their value pretty well, and pristine low mileage models still go for silly money. The bargains are in high mileage slightly tatty, "end of holiday use" ready for full-timing and TLC. Germany is still the best place to buy, but I have seen bargains in the UK.
If it's a solid comfortable motorhome you want for full-timing, you can't really go wrong with an S660 or S700 Mercedes Hymer.
Normally I would be shouting from the rooftops about these vans, and Hymers in general, and I have on other forums (just google funkyronster S700!!), but thought I would take a more measured stance for this thread, as it is about vehicles for full-timing in general.
I have been all over europe and north africa, and rubbed shoulders with the entire international community or full-timers and long distance travellers. From estate cars with a mattress in the back, through motorhomes and conversions, up through Cathargos to Unimogs and beyond. I've seen and met some stunning vehicles and people.
What I have discovered (cliche warning!), perhaps not surprisingly, is that it's horses for courses.
Putting aside the specialist vehicles, the question most people seem to ask is "is a standard motorhome up to the job of full-timing?". It's a difficult question to answer with a simple yes or no. the best I can do is - yes, mostly.
The problem with modern vans is that since they changed the driving test rules a few years ago, everybody's default licence is 3.5t, as opposed to the old 7.5t. This simple fact changed the face of the motorhome industry, as the majority of vans - the mass market - have to be less than this. So we ended up, with what, somewhat disrespectfully, is known as the "plastic fantastic", or more romantically, "le plastique fantastique".
Manufacturers simply had to lighten up, so that meant more plastic, and less wood and steel.
At the same time fuel prices have gone through the roof, so modern vans are light, fast, and do 40 mpg. Brilliant!
But I am not going to say that these vans are unsuitable for FT. Some of them are built better than others, and some owners are more careful than others. But in general, there are issues with reliability and maintenance if you use a van that was designed for 4 weeks use a year for all 52. However I can't ignore the fact that I have met many many fulltimers in standard vans - most happy, some not.
The other big issue is budget - bangs for buck. If you have a big budget, then most problems go away, but let's continue on the basis that we need to squeeze every last penny from our budget.
Like most van anoraks (ahem!) ..... I have been scanning forecourts and Ebay for years, so you get a feel for prices. I have learnt 3 things. 1. Nothing depreciates like a new camper van! 2. Some prices are downright silly. 3. There are incredible bargains to be had.
To that I will add a couple more observations. 1. Most people buy too small. 2. You need extra space. Always! That might seem a very simplistic statement, but I don't just mean space for booze and toys, but modification space. Like bigger batteries, extra gas, and so on.
So taking all that into consideration, I, and quite a few others, have ended up with 20 year old motorhomes like the Hymer S range from the 80's and 90's. They tick a lot of boxes.
Built in the pre 3.5t era, they were built solidly (that's an understatement - brick outhouse more like). And they are also German. If you are over 40, you may remember a time when German kit was literally in a class of it's own. It's still the best today, but back then it was the best by a country mile.
Next is the engine and chassis. A Mercedes diesel engine, with a design life of one million kilometres. No electronics, just solid reliability. My engine just doesn't fail, ever. Even with an air filter full of sand, it just went slower and slower until I noticed! Even with the dirtiest fuel in Morocco, it just went slower and slower until I noticed! It's like that Toyota Hilux Clarkson destroyed on "Top Gear".
It's at this point I have to stop trying to be balanced, and wax lyrical about "Old Style Hymers".
You get a lot of van for your money. Nowadays, if you shop around, you can get an early 90's S6xx or S7XX for around £10-12k. For that you get solid wood and veneer, a choice of well designed layouts, and pretty much everything you need. The only plastic is in the bathroom, and the only money I have spent in the bathroom in 10 years is a new Thetford cassette and a new glass door (I was drunk!).
This was the luxury van of it's era. They were about fifty grand back then - big money! They are solid without gimmicks. The same can be said for that era of Truma equipment. All my Truma stuff still works, only recently have I had to service my heaters. They were untouched for 20 years.
These Hymers also modify well for full-timing, and they carry the weight. Mine is plated at 4.6t and today it weighs 4.2t. That is with 250k of extra batteries, a 150k motorbike and full tanks.
They are not fast - they bear no comparison with modern Fiats, but they are a very comfortable drive, and extremely manoeuvrable, with a turning circle like a black taxi. Drivers over 50 love them, especially those that can double de-clutch!
The standard mods for full-timing are pretty straightforward. Power, lots of it. A single 110a leisure battery just doesn't cut it. You need 4 if you can. And solar panels, at least 200w, and a decent inverter, and a charger ..... the list goes on, but an old style Hymer can take the mods without major surgery.
These vehicles are also rugged. If you want adventure, you only need a Unimog for extremes. A double back wheel RWD Merc chassis will pretty much take you anywhere, and about twice as far as any FWD van. I have had loads of fun towing them off fields! Mine has been across the Sahara twice (not in the soft sand obviously), and on the worst roads in Europe - Ukraine. I have had broken springs and a few bushes, but only last year did I need new shocks. I am not saying they are indestructible (I have tried!), just that they will take a lot of punishment and are easy to repair. Same goes for the interior, it's solid, takes punishment Glastonbury style.....and still looks good after a clean.
One modification for old Hymers that not many people consider is to take out the front drop down bed. Most full timers are couples, and just don't need it. Once it's out you double your cabin space, and it feels like you have just bought a new van. You double your storage space, and you get to use the front over dash space for a drop down TV and sound system.
Choose your layout carefully. Mine is a fixed rear double bed with full width boot under, and fixed table on one side, with fold out extension, twin captains chairs, and settee opposite. It's the best layout I have seen for a couple. We also appreciate the roomy separate shower, which is also our pantry!
So what do I miss? After 10 years of moaning and jealously looking at OPV's, I can honestly say just two things. A bigger fridge and an oven. And perhaps more MPG! Ovens are non standard in european vans, but many Hymers do have them. The fridge we can live with - we eat fresh! My Seitz windows and blinds have seen better days, but they are fixable, and they all still work.
So that's my shout out for old style Hymers. I have not seen any motorhome of similar pedigree that I would rather own. The only thing that tempts me is "the other side" - a truck conversion, or a race truck. There are some incredible race truck bargains on Ebay, that you could modify for living. I would like a garage, but my 125cc Honda sits on the rack, and is no big deal.
Finally - I am not the only one! They are not the commonest van on the road, but when you meet the owners, the story is the same. There is a solid online community and owners, many full time like me who just love them. They keep their value pretty well, and pristine low mileage models still go for silly money. The bargains are in high mileage slightly tatty, "end of holiday use" ready for full-timing and TLC. Germany is still the best place to buy, but I have seen bargains in the UK.
If it's a solid comfortable motorhome you want for full-timing, you can't really go wrong with an S660 or S700 Mercedes Hymer.
