Ron's Technical Tips number 666 - What is the number of your beast?
Think before you buy that 30 year old classic!
After reading our venerable leader's "Buyer Beware" post, I thought I would flesh it out a bit with some thoughts on buying old classics, especially with those in mind who are looking to buy one day.
Grooving around in a 30 year old van, attracting waves and oohs and ahs is cool and desirable, but it can come at considerable cost to your wallet.
There is nothing wrong with throwing caution to the wind and taking on a van that ends up costing far more than it's "book" value, as long as you know it and are not negatively surprised.
But if you are a non technical person with no toolbox, who relies on paid skillspersons to do the work, then beware - the costs can not just escalate, but skyrocket.
The problem with Classic Hymers is that they have attracted a "best of breed" moniker, which sometimes leads folk to think that they are bombproof, and that they can go out and spend five grand on a 1986 model and cruise off round Europe in comfort for a year. It just doesn't work that way. To stay on the road, a van has to pass it's MOT, and that's all. Old vans are often lightly used, and stored under cover, so they tend to stay on the road many years - decades even - than their commercial counterparts. But the fact that it has survived 30 years doesn't mean that it is fault free. For the MOT it has to have lights, stop and go, plus a few other minor bits and pieces! The rest of the van can be a cardboard box for all the MOT tester is concerned.
If you want a 30+ year old van, you have to do the maths - purchase price plus any work needed. If this comes to a lot more than what you could buy a younger van in better nick for, then the difference is basically "art" money - money that you are willing or not to pay for pleasurable or aesthetic reasons. And there is nothing wrong with this as long as your eyes are wide open. People spend thousand renovating old stuff, just for the sheer pleasure of it.
But if you are on a limited budget, with no technical skills, but the style and ethos appeals to you, or if you are just looking for a bargain, then go very carefully, especially if buying from a dealer. From a dealer, old vans will be trade-ins which he wants rid of, not necessarily knackered, but he just wants his money asap and the van off his forecourt. bargains can had, but also dogs can be bought.
You also have to know the model range as well. There are massive differences between say, a S660 Mercedes of 1985, and the same model from 1995. It's a huge difference, and as very rough rule of thumb, you will pay £1000 more for every year. The 1985 model will probably need a fair amount of work, will be 20% slower, and 30% noisier, than the 95 model. So it is very important to know the range, and where your particular desires are located. You will hear talk on here of "Whiteys", "Brownies" and "Goldies" - yet they can all have the same model number. But in reality they are all quite different animals, and all have their quirks, good points and bad points. But the main thing to remember is that a 1985 model is not just an older cheaper version of the same van from 1995.
Because it is my job to give advice, I have to stick my neck out, and usually it gets chopped off. But I am going to suggest that nobody should consider buying a pre 1990 Classic Hymer unless they either have the skills to do their own work, or at least the basic knowledge to specify and identify what needs doing. On pre 1990's I would suggest as a very rough rule of thumb, being prepared to spend another 50% of the purchase price. Obviously these years and amounts are extremely rough guidelines, but they are guided by what I have witnessed on this group and others, over 15 years.
For 1990 to 1995 models, then the situation is as you would expect a bit better. Allowing 25% is probably enough, and if the price is at the top end of the estimate, it is not unheard of to drive one of these away, and not spend more than a few hundred quid on it in the next few years. It is my humble opinion that people who want a classic with as low potential maintenance and nasty shocks, should look to the 5 or 6 years before 95. That is only a guideline, exceptions regularly do happen.
Post 95, when the new shape came in, these are generally in good nick, unless they have been abused, and you can generally regard these as "normal" motorhomes, subject to normal inspection, and each model will have a "book" price. And before the "yoghurt pot" crowd get on my case, let me say that I am a huge fan, of late 90's Hymers, because they had the same quality of interior on newer, smoother, faster chassis. I harbour a secret desire to own an S820 one day!
Finally - just as in almost everything in life, there are exceptions to the rule. So what I am saying here is a few musings on the subject. I know a guy who picked up a mid 80's van in great condition for ridiculous money. There are still Hymers around that have been sat on drives not being used for years, just waiting for the sad day when an estate has to be finally sold. There are also still many Hymers covered in birdshit in yards all over Europe, just waiting for the right guy/gal to come along and devote the next year of their life to it.
It really is no different to the classic VW or classic car game.
Finally - beware of Ebay and Gumtree. Never part with money before viewing....NEVER! And if you do decide to invest the time and fuel on a 500mile round trip, do so on the basis that it could be a total waste of time, but travel hopefully because it could, just could, be a gem.
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EDIT - After reading the comments folk might think I'm trying to put them off! Far from it! A ballerina can refurbish a knackered old Hymer, with the right attitude. My comments are based on the fact that Classic Hymers have such a great reputation that people would be forgiven for thinking occasionally that they are all perfect, at any age - they are not, but are better than all the rest!
