On LED lighting

Ron's Technical Tips No. 2.3 Amps

LED's - an alternative view.

Based on my own experience, and on reading pretty much every post on here since the beginning, I am starting to feel slightly negative about LED lighting, or at least about about installing them everywhere.

There are two main reasons for this - the first is how they look and feel - the aesthetics of them, and the second is just how much power do they really save?

Don't get me wrong, I like my LED installation, but it has taken me several years and at least 3 separate designs to get it to my satisfaction, and my present installation is in addition to and not instead of the original Hymer lighting. 

The first mistake I made was thinking that all leds are the same. They are not. I had to learn about "colour temperature", and that there are many, many shades of white. Several years ago it was difficult to know what you were buying, but now the market has settled down into roughly 2 shades of white - "cool white" and "warm white". Most people know this nowadays, but it is worth saying for the sake of completeness. Cool white is very bright and has shades of blue, and warm white has more yellow. It's down to personal taste, but in general most comments I have read indicate that warm is the way to go in a van, and cool is too harsh, a bit like an operating theatre. The main thing to remember is that it can make a big difference, and getting it wrong is just a pain in the rear. My first bathroom install lasted less than 24 hours before I put the old bulbs back!

The second mistake I made was underestimating the quality and design of the original lighting. Having lived with it for many years, when I started to replace elements of it, I found that I really missed them! Not only the lighting, but the feel and temperature as well. This is the main reason why I have retained nearly all the original lights in my present installation. I think one of the reasons for this is that most of us grew up with the look and feel of the old style lighting - both incandescent and fluorescent. Am I the only one who so often goes into a pub or restaurant which has just had all it's bulbs replaced willy nilly with modern bulbs, and gone "ouch!"?

So what's the appeal? Power saving! You are all mostly shouting. Well I have looked into this quite deeply, and I just don't think the power saving is all that great, or that important. Most Classic Hymers have a combination of 12v strip lights, and small round halogen spots. The strip lights are quite efficient, about 1 amp, and the spots less so at about 2 amps. On paper the difference is quite big, but in reality? I can't imagine a situation where you would have all the lights on for 6 hours. So the lighting "bill" for an average evening might be in the order of 10 amps. Yes the led's might only consume 20% of that - but so what? You have at least a 100 amp battery - you can afford it! And the real deal changer in recent years is that fact that the vast majority of us now have solar panels or some sort, which start to work as soon as the sun comes up, putting power back in.

As an example - take the 4 bulb bathroom column in most Classics. Switch it on and watch the rest of the lights in the van dim, and watch the needle zoom into the red! But Hymer always did things for a reason. You need light to do your makeup (Jon Avery!). As soon as you do away with those 4 powerful bulbs, you will miss them! And the reality is that Hymer didn't bother about how much power they used because they would only be on for a short time. They might use 6 amps - but for how long? So think about this before you rip them out.

My contention is that it isn't how much power you save, but how you use the power available. 

Power saving through lighting is only really a big factor if you are spending a lot of time off grid, and in particular in winter, where there is less sun available.

I am not trying to put anybody off LED lighting, but I do think there is more to think about than just power saving.

Finally, here are some random thoughts about LEDs.

Led strips in the curtain pelmets look super! But you have to install them properly. Nearly all the self adhesive strips I have used have eventually started to come down after a year or so - it can be very frustrating. You have to clean the surface very well, and basically if it doesn't say 3M on the backing strip - don't use it! You can repair falling strips with hot melt glue, or other glues, but it's a fiddly job.

RBG strips that change colour are very funky, but not as replacement lighting. The white that they produce is not liveable with. I suggest RGB strips for decoration and entertainment only.

LED bulbs that consist of lots of leds in clusters are, only in my opinion, the most potentially disappointing of all. Just one faulty flashing led and the thing becomes a source of annoyance. There have been gazillions of cheap Chinese led bulbs on the market, and already I reckon most of them are in the bin. If you have to use bulbs, buy the best you can possibly afford.

Quality in general can be pretty bad. On the whole I have been disappointed with the quality of the components I have used over the last few years. Last year I decided to go in the opposite direction and seek out the most expensive gear I could find - the sort used by proper fitters in commercial establishments. So far a year has gone by without a single fault. So you get what you pay for. Bear in mind that you really only want to do the job once! 

If you are getting on a bit, and find that you need more light than you used to for close up work, then well installed, powerful, high quality, dimmable, warm white led strips can be an absolute boon - especially over the kitchen and dining area.

So in conclusion, think twice, plan your installation, use the highest quality you can, think carefully about the aesthetics and don't be obsessed with power saving.

Also

On the subject of the original Hymer tube lights - most of us have one in the bedroom and one in the van. These were (I think) made by Philips, and are no longer available. However they are a lovely design, and part of the Classic look. They don't consume a lot of power, and have a nice light. The tubes can be replaced, but when the transformer goes, as many do after 25 years, then it's quite a wrench to replace them with a modern unit. However it is a very worthwhile project to rip out the insides and install warm white led strips inside. The end result is very good, and preserves the "classic" feel.

More musings on buying vans (clipped from FB)

I've had 2 S700's in the last 15 years and I love them. Assuming you are not afraid of a toolbox and rolling your sleeves up, then this is my advice. You won't find a perfect van, so it's a matter of how much money and work you are willing to commit to any given van. Most things in a van are cosmetic and not worth getting worried about, as long as the price isn't daft. Batteries, appliances, fridges, wiring, front dash board etc are all reasonably straightforward DIY jobs, and there is usually plenty of work to be done, unless it's been kept on top of by a previous owner. So what you are really looking for is a van that just "feels right" - something that can be worked on - a vision. At a basic level it is a box on wheels, so it's the box and the wheels that need to be looked at most carefully. Look at the expensive things. You want an engine that sounds quite sweet and isn't leaking oil, although some oil leaks can be easily fixed. A bit of smoke from cold is fine and should fade away. Check an auto box very closely, it is imperative to have a test drive. The van should move smoothly through the gears, and kick down on hills. You want progressive acceleration up to 50-60 and then a reasonably smooth cruise - these vans are not fast. Manual boxes should select all gears normally, but don't worry about 1st gear being stiff and difficult to engage. It's a crawler gear and designed to be selected at standstill. If the stick feels spongy and sloppy then it's usually the selector mechanism, not the box itself, and easily fixed. I have written another article about this on this blog. Steering should be reasonably tight and vibration free, but problems here are usually just a matter of worn bushes and easily fixed.

Next, use your nose and smell for damp. Old Hymers are generally watertight unless they have been damaged or abused. 

Around the front end drivers door, if it has one, and the dash board - which is a favourite for getting rotten - it's a piece of plywood and gets soft from all the condensation that drips down the inside of the windscreen. It's a weekends work, and pretty much every old Hymer needs it done at some stage. A knowledgeable seller will tell you if it's been done, but if not, rock the van from side to side, inside, and if you see any movement between the bottom of the windscreen and the dash board, then you know it will need doing. It shouldn't be a deal beaker if you like the rest of the van and are handy with tools, a drill and a jigsaw.

Then take a good long look underneath - you are looking for any areas of bad rust on the main chassis members. Hymers were very well undersealed at the factory, so don't be suspicious if you find it surprisingly clean, but occasionally you will find chassis members flaking with rust, especially behind the back wheels. If the van has mudflaps at the back wheels, that's a good sign. Also check the rear of the floor right at the back in the boot - it gets rotten with all the road water.

Also - these vans have character. Just sit in it quietly for 5 minutes and imagine yourself living in it. Hopefully it will whisper to you!

Price wise - The Germans are asking around £16k for fully loaded lovingly maintained examples. For this sort of money it should be perfect. More than perfect! Most UK vans that need a bit of TLC are around £10 to 13k. Maybe a bit more at this time of year. The right price should be the purchase price plus whatever you need to spend to get it up to scratch, so if you have a fixed budget bear this in mind. If you find any areas of concern and need advice, take pictures and an audio recording of the engine and come back on here. Good luck!